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Wednesday, 7 June 2017

Bishop of St Asaph to extend the hand of friendship


The Rt Rev Gregory Cameron, Bishop of St Asaph, possibly the  next Archbishop.      Sourse: ITV


Traditionalists in the Church in Wales should not get too excited. The Bishop of St Asaph was addressing the need not to befriend 'traditionalist' Anglicans left leaderless in the Church in Wales but so-called 'terrorists' in an ITV discussion on "How we can tackle extremism?"

Observed taking refreshment after the funeral of Bishop David Thomas, the bishop of St Asaph then made time to give his views on matters Muslim rather than attempt with others present to put their own house in order. 

The three current Church in Wales diocesan bishops who attended the funeral ignored the family's invitation to robe in convocation dress and paraded themselves in cope and mitre in a gesture that once again appeared to be progressives thumbing their noses to traditionalists. Bishop David would not have been surprised given his treatment by Barry and his bench sitters during his time as Provincial Assistant Bishop. 

In the ITV discussion, listeners were led to believe that extremism results from Muslims being the victims. No mention of numerous verses in the Koran which command Muslims to kill infidels, Jews and Christians wherever they are found.

True, the hand of friendship should be extended but to draw Muslims to Christ by comparing His message of hope and forgiveness with instructions in the Koran to kill non-believers. However, when he speaks of love and friendship Bishop Gregory should remember that charity begins at home. His message would then carry more force.

"Be joyful and keep the faith!"

31 comments:

  1. I thought convocation dress is formal dress ,so why was it inappropriate for the Bishops to robe in cope and mitre?

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  2. Convocation dress is rochet and chimere

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  3. I would advise him that you need tacklers if you are going to tackle "extremists". Laying down and playing dead won't work, and it is not what we are commanded to do. A Christian tackler would put on the helmet and shoulder pads of Light and go out and preach the Gospel to them.

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  4. This is off-topic, I know, but as the consecration of June Osborne approaches, (and which Bishop David may be profoundly grateful not to be witnessing this side of the threshold between earth and heaven), a thought has struck me. June Osborne and Janet Henderson (remember...) are well known to each other through their membership of DARC (Deans and Residentiary Canons). If you haven't heard of it, don't worry, it's a 'wimin' thing. Anyway, I cannot imagine that they haven't been talking, can you? As Napoleon was telling anyone who cared to listen at a recent concert in his last place of incumbency, his current successor may not fare too well once his near-neighbour arrives.

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  5. I hear Sue Jones didn't get the job as Dean of Derby. Rum pansies all round for the Derby Chapter methinks.

    Well done Derby for dodging that particular bullet!

    Baffled of Bangor

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    1. Goodness me old Baffled. And there 'methinks' that Derby was to be her parting of the Red Sea. Ah well...! I shall have to think of another idea.

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  6. Thankful for Bishop John Hughes8 June 2017 at 15:07

    Well, that could be because the Derby Diocese safeguarding people have received repeated warnings about her bullying. The Bishop of Derby and his dreadful human resources wife (aka the Woman at the Wash House formerly of British Gas) will have been pushing for her, no doubt (and even her ex star pupil Simon Taylor formerly of St Michael's College). She will not have been happy that there is a much larger talent pool in the C of E - and not everyone will be pushed around by her. I hope the persona appointed Dean is robust with Cyanide Sue snarling in the wings. rum Pansies indeed.

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  7. Llyr of Llangybi9 June 2017 at 17:40

    The other obvious dimension is that despite sporting a University of Wales PhD hood, it is patently obvious to anyone who talking, or listening, to her that she doesn't have a brain cell between her ears. Talk to any academic with integrity in Bangor in the late 1990s/early 2000s and they will tell you that they simply don't believe she was capable of producing the necessary work by herself to gain the qualification. Enter a certain off-beam professor who thinks he's a teddy bear. All very sad, really - and not helped by Andy Crap fuelling her delusions by making her Dean of Bangor. It not only precipitated the exodus of talent from Bangor (built up under Tony Crockett), but resulted Bishop Crap being badly bitten by the snarling bitch.

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  8. If you think that's bad Llyr, the present Deaness of Bangarai has even less in terms of academic attainment having once proudly boasted to have failed her examinations "Spectacularly". Since moving in to her spectacularly expensive grace and favour new residence following her extraordinary elevation by Andy Crap she has done nothing to establish a public profile. Can anyone remember when we last had a learned Dean in Bangor?

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  9. Only one Oxford 1st remains in service, and he is not even a canon let alone Dean. No prize for guessing why boyo!

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  10. Hang on Watchman. What about Bob the Builder of 'Pendre Investigations' Caernarfon. What he does with his camera around the square is nobody's business man. He also mimes in a local choir and dresses up like a vicar dun he. Bloke has got talent man.

    Willie Caddy Fanny

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  11. At the cycling rally on Caernarfon Maes this morning all the talk was of bishop Andrew 'Liver Salts' to leave at the end of July. Too long a period to be constipated methinks.

    Teulu Llygoden Iard

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  12. Be careful what you wish for Llygoden Iard. In the present ecclesiastical climate Andy Crap could be replaced by a gender bender with an unsavoury record.
    With the appropriate invocations by the Electoral College or the Bench Sitters he, she or it would be unassailable!

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  13. By "unassailable" do you also mean "irrefutable", as of a gender not known on planet earth? Thank you for the tip off, I'll warn Dic Staliwn of the impending doom then.

    Teulu Llygoden Iard

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  14. Just to keep you all in the picture:

    12 June 2017

    Mr Gwyn Eirug Davies
    Tudur Owen Roberts Glynne & Co
    157 High Street,
    Bangor,
    Gwynedd,
    LL57 1NU

    Dear Mr Davies

    Please take formal notice that I, Gareth John James, intend to voice an objection to the ordination of the Reverend Caroline John as priest, at the ordination service in the Cathedral Church of St Deiniol, Bangor.

    I will clearly outline the basis of my objection at the service. For now, you and the Bishop of Bangor should be assured that I have a considerable body of evidence to demonstrate that this proposed ordination would directly contravene significant and substantial element s of the Constitution of the Church in Wales.

    May I request that a microphone is made available to me in the Cathedral in order that my objection may be clearly heard by all present and in accordance with the aforementioned Constitution.

    Yours sincerely

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  15. Great idea,only shame you let the buggers know about it.Now that you have, why not ask the Daily Post how much they are asking for a paid editorial like the one on 18th April this year, you know, the ones where you write a shitty article, and pay them for publishing, very much like an advetorial. Good luck, and we will keep an eye out for Barry's Group 4 team, named, 'Reasonable Force' from Birkinghead at the Cathedral ordination. One important but very sensitive issue,which is, do abstain from mentioning the name 'Bangor-on-pee' Good luck, and remember we're with you a third of the way.

    Willie Caddy Fanny

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  16. I suspect that you have never read the Koran, Mr Briton, but only a few pamphlets about it. Here is a game you might like to play. Get a copy of the Koran (Wahiduddin Khan's id the best translation), and a copy of the Psalter, and from each, in the manner of the 'sortes Virgilianae', pick at random 10 individual verses. Then make a tally of the bloodthirsty, vituperative and generally angry verses, and the constructive and merciful verses. It may surprise you to find that the Koran almost always wins on constructive and merciful.

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    1. I have both Maureen but this is not a game. Unlike Islam and the Koran, Christianity has moved on from the Psalms but Islam has continued to use the sword for 1400 years.

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    2. Note that it is impossible to read the Koran in translation. Once translated from the original, it becomes a transliteration and not authoritative.

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    3. Readers trying to understand the contradictions in Islam may find this video helpful: "Through the Lens of Muhammad's Life: How the Example and Teachings of Muhammad Shape Islam Today"
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtKJpahyC10
      (H/T Facing Islam Blog)

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  17. I suspect then, Mr Briton, that you do not know very many Muslims. Most Muslims interpret the violent verses of the Koran in the same sort of manner that Christians read the violent verses of their psalms.
    The difference really is that most Christians don't look at the psalms any longer. Nearly all Anglican clergy folk have abandoned the recital of the BCP offices.

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    1. You are correct Maureen in that I do not know many Muslims. Of those I have been in contact with, none has shown any indication towards violence but why would they? Even friends and associates of those who have perpetrated atrocities on innocent victims often express their surprise that such a friendly person could carry out such acts. Muslims are a minority in Britain but growing fast through immigration and higher birth rates. Listening to Christians in Muslim countries such Egypt and Pakistan an entirely different picture emerges. Some of us do not want to see that replicated here. You may welcome the prospect of Sharia but that is your privilege in a democracy, so long as it survives.

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  18. Your comment is interesting, if not disturbing, Maureen Lash, regarding the recital of the BCP offices. I cannot speak for other clergy and their daily habits but I stress that it is part of our calling as priests to read the Daily Offices of Mattins and Evensong, which include a psalm or psalms. This provides the foundation for our life of prayer and is essential if we are to take our ministry seriously. I certainly had that discipline in both my theological college and in the parish of Holyhead, where I served my curacy (1996-99). I am now a priest in the Anglican Catholic Church (Diocese of the United Kingdom)and the same discipline continues, by the grace of God. You say that nearly all Anglican clergy have abandoned their daily offices. It may well be true but how have you gathered this information? If true, it says a great deal about the condition of the Church in Wales/Church of England, of which I am no longer a part.

    The Revd. J. Gareth Parry

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    1. What is 'interesting if not disturbing' Ms Maureen Lash is the priest who religiously recites his daily office every morning and evening, is paid a full stipend by the church, plus a second income as supply teacher, probably declaring it to the tax office, but certainly not to his bishop. Wouldn't you agree that 'it says a great deal about the condition of the Church in Wales/England' Ms Lash? Don't let me confuse you any more Ms Lash. He who lives in a glass house must surely realise that he can't affoard to throw stones,

      Rumpo QC

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  19. Rumpo QC refers to a certain priest who is paid full stipend by his church and has a second income as a supply teacher. I cannot possibly think who that might be. The Anglican Catholic Church certainly does not pay anyone any stipends or expences, so you certainly don't join it if you hope to get rich! The saying of the Daily Office does not involve throwing stones out a glass house, it's an obligation of the calling of a priest, stipend or not.

    Revd. J. Gareth Parry

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    1. There's more than a few priests who regard their calling as a weekend hobby and pursue lucrative "sidelines" during the week.

      My friends at Llandaff told me the Dean began his sermon last Sunday thus:
      "Much as I'd like to get out of doing this sermon, Trinity Sunday is one of the days when I have to preach."

      Poor chap! But a glance at the monthly service sheet shows that last Sunday was the Dean's only preaching engagement for the whole of June.

      If he's not preaching, what's he getting that nice house and the salary for? Hope he's not pursuing some other sidelines on his weekdays, or else the good burghers of Llandaff should be asking for their money back.

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    2. Sideline? I hear he's a regular David Dickinson!
      http://cdn-2.cinemaparadiso.co.uk/081113095242_l.jpg

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    3. Llandaff Pewster19 June 2017 at 21:09

      If you had to suffer Gerwhine's drivel from the Llandaff pulpit you would be very grateful it's only once a month Scapegrace.

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    4. What a difference to his fathers sermons, often recalled around Holyhead as the "baptism of fire".

      Holyhead, I man?

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    5. Note to 'Scapegrace' and June Osborne.
      You won't have far to look, start with any Antiques fair/auction flogging all things Welsh.

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