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Thursday, 23 February 2017

Llandaff stalemate


Llandaff Cathedral with, inset, the Very Rev Jeffrey John, Dean of St Albans


After three days of deliberations (note the link comes under 'Politics'), the Electoral College of the Church in Wales failed to produce a bishop-elect or, as the Rev Peter Ould tweeted, the Church in Wales "couldn't quite bring itself to elect Jeffrey John as Bishop of Llandaff".

With Barry Morgan retired to his bunker his bench sitters were left to their own devices. They will have known that Jeffrey John's preferment had long been high on Morgan's political agenda and no doubt the facilitator would have been well aware of the former Archbishop's preference. His daughter is diocesan Registrar and his wife a former priest at the Cathedral. But which preference? The advancement of feminism or the acceptance of homosexuality on a par with God's plan for procreation?

The Dean of St Albans has had a rough time. With little or no honour in the Church today, Jeffrey John decided not take up the post of Bishop of Reading because of the "damage" his consecration might cause to the "unity of the Church". With hindsight, what unity? As an open, celibate pastor he fulfils the requirements of the Church of England when others have blatantly ignored the rules. The recent defeat in Synod of the motion to take note of the House of Bishops reportMarriage and Same Sex Relationships after the Shared Conversations (GS 2055) and subsequent commentary provide testimony to that.

The former Archbishop of Wales made it quite clear many years ago that he saw no objection to someone in a homosexual relationship becoming a bishop in the Church in Wales (CinW). The first divorcee, part of the CinW 'mafia', was appointed by Barry and his bench sitters. If he were still Archbishop no doubt he would have engineered his hat trick after the appointment of 'the best person to be a bishop' despite her obvious failings to the see of St Davids. My only reservation is that Dean John came Out4Marriage, ie, same sex marriage offering so much baloney in the Barry mould that one wondered if his judgement had become impaired.

The Church has moved on, as the establishment sees it, so John's treatment looks increasingly harsh. If he were willing to take on Llandaff, the best of luck to him. Anyone willing to sort out the mess created by Dr Morgan deserves praise and prayers.

The problem for the bench sitters is that spirituality has become secondary to political correctness and business management as they struggle to keep the ship afloat. Should they opt for the gay agenda or continue to advance the feminist cause? We can be assured that in the forthcoming "wide-ranging consultation of both the laity and the clergy from across the Church in Wales" MAE Cymru women will be screaming the loudest.

Like Violet Elizabeth Bott they can scream and scream until they are sick. The bench sitters will no doubt ignore the consultations and do as they please, just as they did with previous farcical consultations. Pray that they get it right for once.

Postscript [24.02.2017]

An interesting report has appeared in Christian Today:  Leading Gay Cleric Jeffrey John Narrowly Rejected As Bishop In Wales.

Despite the secrecy of the locked-doors policy it has emerged that Dr John was "narrowly rejected" for the post of Bishop of Llandaff. Dr Morgan's final address as Archbishop to "urge the Church to rethink its stance on LGBT couples" increasingly looks like an election address. Both John and Morgan have attempted to re-interpret our traditional understanding of the Bible to justify their cause.

Llandaff has the reputation of having a strong gay presence so the "strong support he received among local clergy and parishioners in the largely liberal diocese" comes as no surprise.

Being a celibate gay cleric is one thing, trying to change people's attitude to the sacrament of Holy Matrimony is quite another.

One mistake in Llys Escob is enough. The diocese doesn't need another.

Postscript [02.03,2017]

Bishop of Llandaff – appointment process.  Provincial press release here.

Llandaff Diocesan Profile and Person Specification for Bishop of Llandaff, and a note on the provincial perspective, may be found here.

In addition to the Diocesan Profile and Person Specification, interesting reading on the state of our diverse society can be found here.

137 comments:

  1. I thought that these deliberations were confidential. You suggest that Dr John "won" but by not enough. Is that the case? Was it the bishops who opposed him? Does "consulting the wider church" mean letting ++Canterbury make the appointment

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    1. Stan, I had not intended to convey that Dr John had "won". I was simply intrigued by Peter Ould's tweet. Dr John's name has a habit of surfacing when there is a vacancy. My understanding is that dioceses are reluctant to appoint him because of the baggage that they suspect would come with it, opening up the diocese to press intrusion.

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    2. The diocese of Lincoln has survived the appointment of a partnered gay bishop in Grantham. Perhaps it is Dr John's honesty that galls the bench of bishops as the word on the aisle is that he "won" hands down

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    3. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    4. The latest discussion thread over on 'Thinking Anglicans' includes a press report that Dr John was amongst the nominees. See http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/

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  2. I can’t say I fancy Jeffrey John as Bishop of Llandaff because he told me I am not human.

    That is actually a gross exaggeration. But that's the way things are reported these days and it is sort of true. I wasn’t actually in Liverpool Cathedral at the time but I did watch and listen on YouTube so it was almost as good as being there.

    During his sermon Jeffrey John told us that if we did not agree with him about same-sex marriage we were inhumane. In the same sermon he also proved, at least to his satisfaction, that the Centurion and the male servant, "that he loved", were gay and that therefore, Jesus approved of homosexual love.

    Still, if that’s what you want in the south, you’re welcome. Up here in this Northern Outpost of “sexual correctness” I shall continue to spend my Sunday mornings surfing the net and listening to half hour long sermons about good and evil, obedience, discipline, sacrifice, punishment, duty and lots of other words you won’t hear in Church any more.

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    1. Again AM, I am not endorsing Dr John. By the standards of the Church of England and the Church in Wales today his treatment looks harsh. However, his 'justification' for same sex marriage puts him at odds with scripture and tradition. That rules him out for me. I hope and pray that the bench will abandon politics and seek a deeply spiritual man.

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    2. There has been gross unlawful injustices within the Church in Wales during the past two decades AB. The Very Rev Dr John is certainly not one of them. Though it is reassuring to read that for you scripture and tradition rules him out,but unfortunately , the Constitution of CofW, (Barry's Bible) could rule him in. The result of batting both ways in a fundamental liberal none Catholic Church.

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    3. Seemly blocked by Morgan in Bangor

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  3. Fair enough. But due to the closed nature of the process, all that can be said with certainty, is that, none of the candidates fielded secured the unequivocal confidence of the Electoral College. Better, it seems to me, to move forward from what really, proved to be a divisive selection. When the consultation begins, therefore, I hope there will be a concerted attempt to identify fresh candidates who can inspire cross-party confidence and hopefully, in addition, draw on the support and backing of the wider church constituency.

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    1. Commonsense I agree. To appoint anyone who has been considered but rejected would be divisive.

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    2. What does consultation mean? During the recent consultation on the three options up for discussion - the status quo,blessings or same sex marriage, our parish priest refused to hold a debate, even within the PCC, but went off confidently to the diocesan conference to vote in favour of the "marriage" option.

      Disillusioned

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    3. Cowardly to a fault. In such a situation the preferred candidate of the diocese should be backed

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  4. A senior cleric of The C in W told me that Jeffrey John has written prayers for children addressing God as 'she' . Just saying...

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  5. Llandaff is fighting to avoid having a woman bishop in their own camp. Jeffrey John was seen as their escape but their strategy failed.

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  6. "Wider consultation"?
    This means getting on the phone to retired Barry , for tactical advice.
    If Barry's preferred option is Jeffery John,then that will be the eventual appointment, so that the Church in Wales may be 'gayed-up'.
    If the Bench believe that Jeffrey will instill a celibate lifestyle in all our homosexual clergy,dream on.
    Our Christian life should mirror the Holy Family and this should be our pattern. Thus ,based on this understanding the C in W is regrettably unsuitable for the upbringing of children.

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  7. What is more worrying is the Jeffrey John is reputed to deny Penal Substitutionary Atonement in direct contradiction to the 39 Articles of Religion which he swore to uphold at his ordination.

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  8. I would suspect that most Christians would take issue with the concept of penal substitution atonement. Most of us follow schliernarcher's theology of atonement, I would suspect. James Alison the Catholic Theologian sheds some good light on this.

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    1. If it is as you suspect then it is a sorry day since 'most Christians' would be at loggerheads with the Apostles. Maybe that's the problem?

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  9. What about the other candidate, should one ask the Ven Chris Smith ?

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  10. The Angle from Anglesey25 February 2017 at 05:32

    No. One should not ask Ven Chris Smith because he is too much in Barry Morgan's pocket as his obsequiously cloying tribute to him in the Llandaff Bugle testifies. He will not unite the Diocese. He will also be unspeakably dull. And, by the way, don't fall for the 'Barry wanting Jeffrey John' ruse. As some of your readers will know, Barry ruled Jeffrey John could not be a candidate for the 2008 Bangor election because, er hum, anyone in a civil partnership was disqualified. That was not Morgan's only act of colluding with selective homophobia at that particular electoral college, when he feared that someone with more brains and bottle than he has would be elected to the Bench Sitters.

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    1. Is there a likely candidate who is not in Barry Morgan's pocket?
      It might appear that the Electoral College are looking in the wrong direction. There are good traditional Anglo-Catholic priests in Wales and England who given the opportunity would recover tradition and teaching in the diocese.

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  11. Ancient Briton, reports from your website suggest that, in the end, there may have been 1 candidate who was very close to meeting the required number of votes. If this is right and my maths serves me well, then, this 1 candidate received about twice as many votes as his rival (s). Under such circumstances, assuming that the numbers were made known, then surely, the gracious and generous gesture to make, as an act of service to the Diocese, would have been for the runner(s) up, to concede a clear democratic defeat, withdraw and enable the start of a fresh episcopate, without rancour, without shoring up further division, without delay. That this did not happen, was a lost opportunity for the healing and mission of the Diocese of Llandaff. And, if the numbers were not made known, then it is time that they were, and the minority, in this matter, desist further, from such infelicitous obduracy

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  12. Batsfordm27. From what I've heard you are wrong and the votes were almost equal. Let us not surmise anything unless we are told the whole truth but I suspect what you have heard is totally incorrect

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    1. Ah. Well, if this is correct, they should both withdraw and someone fresh be charged with the task, otherwise the division will just fester.
      Right now, I'm off to watch the rugby!!

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  13. No. One should not ask Ven Smith indeed, for other, fundamental reasons of justice and consistency, if Jeffrey John's situation is not considered acceptable.

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  14. This is exactly what happened in the Bangor elections. Jeffrey John (out and honest) against one other candidate who was known to be gay and in a partnership but not transparent about it (their right of course). I'd go for the open candidate any day.

    The Bench are consulting - can I suggest people just write to offer their full support of Jeffrey John. If lay and ordained folk did that then we could get on with the business of loving the world and one another.

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    1. With all the gay candidates for bishop being talked about, the Iris prize winning documentary commended by the Bishop of St Asaph, 'All one in Christ', looks more ridiculous than ever.
      On the contrary, support for Jeffrey John after using his own and Dr Morgan's interpretation of the Bible to justify an 'Out4Marriage' homosexual life style would be voting for just that.

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  15. Jeffrey John Please. I suggest you keep your views to yourself IF you do not know the name of the other candidate and are purely speculating. I suggest you probably are describing the wrong other candidate which could be very damaging

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    1. Perhaps you might do him the courtesy of letting him have his say

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    2. Vexed of Felinheli26 February 2017 at 16:13

      Yes, Fishy is right. The tone of Jeffrey John Please's post suggest to me that this is someone who has a vested interest in cranking up the unfounded rumour mill, frightened that someone they thought they had seen off may return in another guise. That would be very good for Llandaff - but probably not for the person I'm thinking of.

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    3. Could not be further from the truth Vexed. Intrigued as to who you might be thinking of though. I just want the best for the Diocese, nothing more.

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    4. If that's all you really want you would have chosen a better nom-de-plume.
      With the already dismal state of the Cathedral and Diocese the last thing Llandaff needs is yet another controversial appointment.
      We've had eighteen years of the Morgan doctrine of deceit and dishonesty, his coven and his fantabulous gay cabal forced upon us in an eighteen-year-long experiment and look where that has taken us.
      I have never known or observed so much heartache, despair or disillusion and it is accurately reflected in the plummeting attendances and lack of good quality ordinands.
      Llandaff desperately requires a straight-forward honest traditionalist anglo-Catholic family man rooted in the Apostolic faith, prepared to bang a few heads together, clean up the corruption and filth, to preach THE word and not the queered secularised modernised politically correct crap we've had from that creep Barry.
      I pray the Holy Ghost is listening.

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    5. Come Holy Ghost, our souls inspire27 February 2017 at 13:21

      Well said CG.
      And it needs saying.
      Over and over and over again.

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  16. Its an extremely sad day when it seems candidates for the See of Llandaff have the essential criterion of being gay.

    What is this obsession with sexual orientation! It seems like growth and renewal are way down the list in the list of priorities....dumbfounding. Get someone with real experience of growing an Archdeaconry, there must be someone in these islands surely!

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    1. I think it may be the case that having been discriminated against for so long there are able gay candidates around of which Jeffrey John is a spectacular example after all he was appointed bishop on 2003

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    2. Let's not discriminate then and choose a spiritual, inspiring leader with a track record of growth whose life and conduct can unite a fractured diocese and province.

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  17. Growing an Archdeaconry? Why not the very reverend Jonathan Greener, Dean of Wakefield - would bring experience, dynamism and is an outsider, so can focus on mission undistracted by the pointless internal politics of Llandaff. Posted by Peter

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  18. Lighthouse Keeper25 February 2017 at 16:39

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  19. Why not let the congregations of all Welsh churches have a vote or would that just be opening the flood gates???!!!!!

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    1. Heck,you mean the chuckle brothers sharing their authority with the laity?

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  20. I wonder what would have happened if all Welsh congregations had had individual votes when the Same Sex Marriage consultations started back in 2015?

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    1. Now that is an interesting thought Anglican misfit... I just wonder......!!!

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    2. They would have been ignored just like they have been over the Eleri Jones report in Llandaff.

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    3. @AM.com Our Vicar decided that as a gay man he had to vote in favour of SSM ignoring the result of the parish consultation which was to maintain the status quo. He must have thought he was bishop material!
      Disillusioned

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  21. Retired and Relieved27 February 2017 at 12:58

    I apologise if I appear to be throwing a hand-grenade into this discussion, and other recent posts that seem overly concerned with the sexuality of bishops in particular, and clergy more generally. However, are some of us suffering from selective amnesia here? This would not be the first time Llandaff has had a gay partnered bishop in recent memory. Barry Morgan's predecessor was much loved, and struggled to do the right thing by the church as a whole, and the faithful traditionalist catholic clergy in his diocese. It seems that being gay, for some of us who hold to a traditionalist catholic stance, is ok over a gin behind closed doors; but something to be abhorred in public. I think it's probably time we all started getting real and stopped the double-speak. It's not healthy for the Church as a whole, or for the health of those priests who feel they have to conceal a major part of their identity. We have lived with enough dishonesty in the C in W over the past decade or so. Now is not the time compound it.

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    1. This is an odd argument. If many people struggle with alchoholism in private, you aruge, it is better to be honest so select an openly alcoholic bishop?
      The basic problem is that we don't agree as Anglicans. Many of us beleive being actively gay is Ok, others of us beleive that actively gay is against bible teaching. That is it in a nutshell.
      So an actively gay bishop can only be a source a division.
      The dishonesty in the CiW is deeply rooted in endless areas but is a seperate subject, and also against bible teaching of course. But one wrong, can not make a right.
      I noticed yesterday Tesco announced they are laying off deputy managers to have more staff on the shop floors. Perhaps the asnwer is not to appoint a Bishop of Llandaff and merge dioceses..........
      Danny Jones

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  22. Exactly - there have been several "over a gin behind closed doors" gay bishops in the Church in Wales - but that compromised them when it came to saying "no" to ordinands who appeared at their door who were honest about being gay, and that can't be right can it? Jeffrey John would be a candidate would encourage us to "get real" and get on with sharing good news. Plus JJ has done an excellent job at St. Alban's - the congregation has grown and they've probably been thankful they've been able to keep him all this time! I don't want another bishop who is gay but not out - as you say, that's not healthy for anyone, least of all him/her.

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  23. How much longer do we have to wait??? Come on Bishops get a move on and decide. I vote for Nigel Williams, Dean of St Asaph who is a Welsh speaker which I believe is a requirement. Can Jeffery John speak the mother tongue?

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    1. Yes. Good to see that you have researched so diligently

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    2. Welsh speakers not required in Llandaff.
      Devout faithful traditional Christians are.

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    3. OMG!! Discrimination. Who is this racist? How dare this wretched misfit suggest that a Welsh speaker is not capable of being 'Devout traditional faithful Christian'. Into the tumbler dryer she goes (whatever her orientation).Soon she will be as dry as Barry's sermons.

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    4. Don't be such an Ass Carl, there's nothing racist about it.
      If St. David's doesn't need a Welsh speaker for Bishop then Llandaff certainly doesn't.

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    5. The only language available in Bangor is fluent bullshit.

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    6. Now where does that place Llandaff Cymru'r Groes - the seat of all b......t ?

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    7. Well and truly in the same boat Carla, the sinking one.

      Canon Masson has answered Hopeful's question.
      Jeffrey John speaks fluent mother tongue so doesn't it strike you as most peculiar that he wasn't elected Bishop of St. David's?

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  24. No, Hopeful, with respect – this shouldn’t be rushed, even though Nigel Williams has great potential for the future.
    Reading the comments on this topic to date (thank you, Ancient Briton, for being impartial in publishing a whole range of them), it’s clear that the Church in Wales will have to deal with the issue of sexuality at some point, honestly and unequivocally. In short, to decide, what is acceptable, in terms of same sex relationships and what is not, for clergy and laity, alike.
    It’s also clear that for the present, the Diocese of Llandaff is in desperate need of respite from controversy, in this regard.
    My suggestion, is to give the Assistant Bishop charge, pro tem, to enable the Diocese to simply get on with being church for at least a year, possibly more. He will not be universally popular – which cleric is? – but he would be a bishop who could hit the ground running and give a period of stability.
    In the meantime, it would give the Province space, to take a long, hard look at how it is to manage the difficult contents of the Pandora’s Box that spilled out of the Electoral College, last week.

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  25. Couldn't help noticing the similarities between Jeffery John and Stephen Kirk. Are you sure they are not twins!!!!!

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    1. What about his elder brother Sir Elton?

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    2. The Ass Bishop reeks of l'eau de --Bazza.

      Never mind 'gay', why not have the ultimate omni-shambles-cluster-f*** and go lesbian?

      http://anglicanmainstream.org/swedish-bishop-wants-to-remove-crosses-from-church-and-mark-direction-of-mecca-to-make-it-more-inviting-for-muslims/

      It's just about the only option not yet tried in Llandaff.

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    3. Llandaff Quality Assurance Section : REJECTED28 February 2017 at 14:12

      Tongue well and truly in cheek Harlequin?

      It might find favour with the twelve Llandaff electors all of whom are reputed to have voted for Jeffery John.

      After the trinity of gay Bishops following Glyn Simon and bullshitter Barry the disaster who is still fascinated with all things queer, surely Llandaff could do better than another "Staggers bag" who is already in his 65th year?
      If he wasn't good enough for Bangor in 2008 why would anyone believe he would be good for Llandaff now?

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  26. My daughter works in the restaurant at the Cardiff & Country Club. Guess which Welsh-born Dean of a cathedral in the English home counties was in there, a couple of weeks ago, having lunch with a well-known episcopal golfer and sometime part-time Ordinary of the Diocese of Llandaff?

    Yes, Celtacymru, the best possible outcome would be a period of mature reflection with David Wilbourne keeping the show on the road. This should not be rushed, because it will only result in another bad appointment (a la St Davids and Bangor), more hurt and disappointment, and a rumbling chorus of disaffection to undermine the mission of the Diocese.

    Interestingly, I heard a whisper the other day that a group of former Church in Wales clergy had written to the Bench Sitters in January to propose exactly Celtacymru's solution; to postpone the election and cast the net much wider. Obviously, they were ignored by the defensive and threatened barons who now find themselves running around like headless chickens.

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  27. FRCO, CeltaCymru - In truth, it’s the only solution that would allow the Diocese to move forward.
    Which isn’t to say that the issue can then be ducked.
    Like it or not, the Church in Wales has got to agree on an honest response to sexuality that is honestly professed. There has been too much ‘see but don’t tell,’ and a ‘make do and mend’ attitude and it is frankly damaging and untenable. Unless it is dealt with sooner, then it will re-emerge, hydra-like, to continue its disruption.
    On the lunch-club encounter, I’d say, again, it’s an argument for bringing some transparency into this process. I doubt that the Holy Spirit really requires secrecy nor locked doors to move and inspire. The backgrounds and priorities of all future episcopal candidates should be available to all. And some idea of their ideas for furthering the church’s mission, should be circulated and prayed over and debated. The present system is really, unconscionable and unhealthy.
    Finally, having perused the Church in Wales website a few moments ago, there is still no indication of the form or process which the consultation will take. It’s quite astonishing, therefore, that the only national platform for expressing opinions on this matter, is this forum. Whilst we can be grateful to Ancient Briton for this service, we can only wonder at the lack of initiative on an official level in the Province – and hope, since this column is widely read by the same officials, that they will wake up soon.

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  28. Bishop David can not run the diocese as an assistant Bishop, and currently Bishop John is running the diocese and has appointed the two archdeacons and Assistant Bishops to each run a third for him.
    I'm not sure a temporary year post would give the diocese stability, but rather just leave it hanging in limbo for longer, even if it were legally possible.
    I fear the CiW is now bishop centric and doesn't actually want to seek the view of the pew sitters. This was clear in the stitch up on gay marriage where the average person had no say at all.The review was similarly ignored when it said we are top heavy and only the bits they liked introduced (ministry areas).

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  29. 1. Now that Dean Jefrey John has been rejected by the Electoral College ,his name should not be given further consideration.
    2. It is the mark of Barry to continue to seek to manipulate the eventual appointment. Throughout his time in office he worked as a politician in every key Governing Body decision and even down to rural deanery meetings. #corrupt.

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  30. It seems a very odd position to take to say that the preferred candidate of the diocese in question who had twice the votes of the next candidate should be rejected

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    1. Stan, how do you know how many votes each candidate received. Are you a member of the Electoral College?

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    2. The ears in the walls report Canon Masson is agitating at the behest of His --Darkness to secure the "right" and desired result.
      Rather than follow convention and leave the Diocese following retirement, Morgan of Oz is busy pulling the strings from his technology room in Llys Ego Whitchurch.

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    3. Assuming this is correct Masson needs to wind his neck in and preferably retire without delay.

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    4. @1662 Not surprising given Canon Masson's guest preacher
      http://parishofporthcawl.org/all-saints-centenary-mass/
      Benny

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    5. Llandaff Pewster1 March 2017 at 09:24

      @1662
      Your ears in the walls are correct.

      From: Philip Masson
      Sent: 25 February 2017 18:57
      Subject: CONSULTATIONS & THE CHAPTER

      Greetings,

      We are all to be part of a consultation (based, I presume on Area Deaneries) to help us find a new bishop, having been told that the Electoral College failed to find a sufficient majority for any one candidate. I have suggested to the Dean that the Chapter make a formal response to this and offer what follows as a help in this; I have sent a similar letter to the Area Deans, so forgive any duplication.

      The proceedings are, of course, confidential but I found this on Thinking Anglicans http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/which seems to shed some light on the deliberations.
      If this is to be believed (and it would be strange to invent it ) one candidate only received a majority (but not 2/3 support), Dr Jeffrey John, the Dean of St Alban's. All twelve of our electors supported him. The convention is that such overwhelming support from the home diocese is accepted by the rest, so something seems to have gone awry.

      I like, I'm sure, many of you, was asked by one of our electors who I would suggest as bishop, a conversation no doubt held many times in weeks gone by. I mentioned Jeffrey, among others, and was asked to ask if he would be willing to be considered. Jeffrey and I were ordained here in 1978, though we first met as prospective undergraduates at the same college in 1970, and we have been friends since then. He is Godfather to my oldest child; his mother and sisters now live here in Porthcawl. I spoke to him at some length, as I know representatives from the diocese did, and was impressed by his enthusiasm and fervour for the Gospel - there is no other way to put it. He also asked some very acute and sometimes painful questions about the diocese.

      For those of you for whom he is only a name vaguely remembered, Jeffrey, a fluent Welsh speaker, was born in Tonyrefail in 1953. He grew up there and went to Hertford College, Oxford where we both studied Classics and Modern Languages. He got a First (I didn't). From there we parted - he went to St Stephen's House and I went to Mirfield. He got a 2nd in his Theology degree and was ordained to a Title at Holy Nativity, Penarth.

      From Penarth he went back to Oxford to study for a DPhil on St Paul and became Dean of Divinity (Chaplain) to Magdalen College. A spell as a Parish Priest in south London was followed by appointment as Canon Chancellor of Southwark, responsible for clergy training. Then in 2003 came appointment as Bishop of Reading, from which he had to withdraw. This was because Jeffrey has been in a partnership with Fr Grant Holmes since his time at St Stephen's House, (so they have now been together for over 40 years). You may remember the hoo-ha. He then became Dean of St Alban's, where he has fostered a centre for mission and education and has been part of consistently growing congregations.

      I hope it was not the fact of his civil partnership (his and Grant's lifestyle is totally in accord with Church in Wales guidelines) that prevented his election. Our electors did considerable research into him and others and were convinced he was the right choice for us, so it is difficult to discern whatever else the reason can be. There is one other puzzle; Jeffrey has met Bishop John only once, briefly, and has at best a passing very occasional acquaintance with Bishop Gregory; he does not know the other bishops at all. They made no move to contact him before the college, which, since they were told he was a likely candidate, I would have thought the obvious thing to do.

      I hope this bit of background information is helpful in this troubling time. We are in uncharted territory - the last (and only) time there was a failed election (over Tony Crockett in Bangor) only the 'home' diocese was consulted so this wider spread is an innovation.

      I'm sure that once the timetable and format are made known Gerwyn will call us together.

      Until then

      Pax et bonum

      Philip

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    6. Lux Et Veritas1 March 2017 at 09:51

      No sign of the Holy Ghost at work here, just the usual behind-the-scenes stitch up so typical of Llandaff in recent decades.

      If indeed Jeffrey John "asked some very acute and sometimes painful questions about the diocese" perhaps he'll have the sense to leave Llandaff well alone!

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    7. Thank you Llandaff Pewster. Philip Masson appears to be suggesting that the Electoral College could be done away with leaving it to the diocese to appoint a bishop of their choosing opening the procedure to cronyism. The College guards against the tactics being employed by Llandaff.
      It is odd that the proceedings at St Davids remain secret while Llandaff is leaking like a sieve, no doubt to get their man elected for reasons best known to themselves given all the baggage involved.
      It is interesting that Masson does not touch on John's support for same sex marriage, something the Bench favoured under Barry Morgan, or on John's interpretation of the Bible to support the LGBT+ life style.
      If John gets Llandaff it will confirm the worst fears of many, not because he is gay but because of the methods employed by the LGBT community.

      Delete
    8. The possibility doesn't seem to have occurred to Masson that the "considerable research" he claims was carried out by Llandaff electors "into him and others" might not be as comprehensive as it should be or that the Bishops might know something the others did not.

      If there was any value in such "considerable research" how and why did Llandaff get landed with the arch bullshitter --Barry?

      Delete
    9. @Benny
      What a coincidence.
      One might be forgiven for concluding that Masson had anticipated an announcement on 23rd that Jeffrey John was Bishop elect.

      Delete
    10. @Ancient Briton

      Evidently the "cronyism" was present even before the electoral college had gathered.

      The process is supposed to be confidential but for some, clearly it is not, how else could Masson or anyone else know
      "Our electors did considerable research into him and others and were convinced he was the right choice for us"?

      The only rational explanation is the election of Jeffrey John to Llandaff had been pre-determined and the 3 day electoral college behind the closed Cathedral doors was intended to be a sham from the outset.
      I agree with 1662, such activity bears all the hallmarks of the arch hypocrite pulling strings and wielding undue influence.

      Masson's other claims that
      "Jeffrey has met Bishop John only once, briefly, and has at best a passing very occasional acquaintance with Bishop Gregory; he does not know the other bishops at all. They made no move to contact him before the college, which, since they were told he was a likely candidate, I would have thought the obvious thing to do."
      suggest Jeffrey John has also been telling tales, how else would Masson know such things?

      An Episcopal summons should be sent to Masson requiring his attendance at a formal interview to explain himself to all the Bishops.
      One imagines an imminent retirement announcement and advertisement in the Church Times for a new Canon Precentor at Llandaff Cathedral.

      Delete
    11. How on earth could the bishops contact anyone who may have been a candidate. Nominations are supposed to be made at the electoral college. No one is supposed to know until that time the names of nominations. And also if they were able to know before then they would have had to meet all people whose names may have been mentioned. The list could be immense.

      Delete
    12. Lux Et Veritas3 March 2017 at 14:45

      @AB & Episkopos

      The rules governing the election of Bishops are to be found here.

      http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/resources/constitution-handbooks/constitution-of-church-in-wales/chapter-5-regulations-relating-to-the-archbishop-and-the-diocesan-bishops/

      Under the circumstances, of particular interest to me is

      21.1 On the day, and at the time and place appointed for the election, and after celebration of the Holy Communion in the cathedral, the President shall take the chair and declare the College to be assembled for the election of the Bishop of the diocese. Such meeting shall be private.
      21.2 The voting shall be by ballot.
      21.3 There shall not be a vote by orders.
      21.4 The President shall not have a second vote.
      21.5 Any dispute as to a vote shall be referred to the President whose decision shall be final.

      The meeting supposed to be private, the voting is done by ballot papers and not by a show of hands, presumably for reasons of privacy also.

      As pointed out by AB above, details of the recent electoral college in St. David's are almost non-existent.

      The ears in the walls report a big witch hunt is underway to identify the culprit for Masson's email appearing here.

      Am I the only one thinking the greater concern should be the leak that provided Masson with the opportunity to broadcast how the Llandaff electors cast their secret ballots?
      How many people would have sight of them after they had been collected?
      How could anyone possibly know such details?
      The vast majority of those taking part in the electoral college are not even supposed to know!

      Delete
  31. So, there is someone who would, in any other organization, be head-hunted. A first class preacher; a published writer on Spirituality; experience of handling the machinations of a University department deftly and successfully and turning it around; with on-going growth in his present parish after an excellent pastoral ministry in a University dynamic and innovative in his liturgy; collaborative; has experience of life outside the Diocese, yet is a first language Welsh speaker; energetic and able to attract and relate to a new generation of worshippers. Would benefit from the assistance of an Assistant, to see him through the early years, but following this, admirably placed to lead, not just the Diocese, but the Province.
    A fresh new start for us all.

    ReplyDelete
  32. It was looking good right up to the machinations of a University Department bit. Damnation with faint praise?

    ReplyDelete
  33. Was JJ shortlisted for St David's and,if so, why did Barry not give him the job or was he that keen on enlisting the fairer sex?

    ReplyDelete
  34. Thank you, Father Masson for this. It provides clarity and honesty and both are essential, if this process is to progress constructively.

    CeltaCymru

    ReplyDelete
  35. Please let’s not kid ourselves. The Llandaff stalemate is all about integrity in the matter of sexuality.
    If an openly gay, celibate candidate, like Jeffrey John, is rejected because of his honesty in this, then we need to know.

    Weary With Prejudice

    ReplyDelete
  36. North of Llandrindod1 March 2017 at 13:04

    Philip Masson's intervention is as pathetic as the original field put before the electoral college. The Llandaff selectors are suffering from that ubiquitous Welsh condition, described by the great R.S. Thomas as 'sick with in-breeding.' If they can only come up with two plausible candidates (both partnered and gay, incidentally) it suggests (a) complete lack of vision and aspiration on the part of the Diocese of Llandaff; (b) a festering, incestuous culture of nepotism; and, in consequence (c) the clear need for an absolute outsider - and one that has not been tainted by being rumbled as Barry the Golfer's chosen heir.

    By the way, commonsense40, I really do hope you are not thinking of a university academic who thinks he's a teddy bear, who spends his time asking people to complete questionnaires, who used to hang-out in Carmarthen, and would just be a Trojan horse for a poisonous former Dean in this province?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Of the two candidates, option (d) that neither was plausible and option (e) that no other outsider was mug enough to allow their name to go forward for consideration, are possible explanations.
      It's not that long ago that a strong potential candidate was approached about a vacant diocese in Wales and repeatedly flatly refused for their name to go into the Sorting Hat.

      Delete
  37. I read some of these contributions and reel in horror. Surely the Church even in Wales is about kindness, decency and honesty. It is well nigh impossible to maintain that position reading some of the borderline homophobic casuistry and wilful denial of facts that abounds here

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Stan, the Church is primarily a call to a Holy Life with the Bible as our principal guide. I don't hate people who struggle with gossip if I believe the Bible warns of the danger of gossip. Similarly if I believe the Bible has much to say about marriage and against gay intimacy, that does not make me homophobic. Read your Bible, it can be very hard hitting. Jesus was kind to the woman caught in adultery but also told her to "go and sin no more".
      The liberal Church simply doesn't recognise sin, therefore is dying as it's not worth getting out of bed on a Sunday for.

      Delete
  38. What would Jesus say?1 March 2017 at 18:01

    Kindness, decency and honesty in the Church in Wales?
    You're having a laugh Stan.
    All that went out when Barry took the helm.

    ReplyDelete
  39. If the supporters of Dr John who allege homophobia would like to comment on his support for the Out4Marriage campaign http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9421350/God-backs-gay-marriage-says-Dr-Jeffrey-John.html and his "Far-fetched romantic speculation" about the healing of the Centurion's servant in Luke 7 [http://listserv.virtueonline.org/pipermail/virtueonline_listserv.virtueonline.org/2016-June/021347.html] I would be interested to read them.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Old article from 3 years ago but still particularly relevant in Llandaff today.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2014/feb/28/religion-exists-unsayable-musicians-penetrate-further?CMP=share_btn_fb

    "If only the church could get over its preposterous obsession with regulating people's bedroom behaviour, or nagging at a dwindling and indifferent audience about narrow points of obscure doctrine, or desperately trying to sign people up in some undignified recruitment drive, and instead remember that it is in the hands of such musicians that the church is at its most emotionally compelling. No wonder cathedral attendance has actually been growing even as church attendance generally continues to fall."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Masson couldn't have read it Harold, he was one of the four Philistines who made the Cathedral choir redundant but he's found the time and energy to engage in a nepotistic 'undignified recruitment drive' on behalf of his old Staggers chum Jeffers.

      Delete
    2. @llandaff pewter
      I'm finding it hard to believe what you revealed
      One of the cathedral canons is canvassing his colleagues on behalf of a personal friend ("godfather to my oldest child") to the role of bishop (nepotism), breaching what are clearly confidences (that bishops John and Gregory made "no move to contact him" (his personal friend)) and then presenting a cv, again of his personal friend, all AFTER a decision has been made not to appoint his personal friend because not enough votes were cast in his favour? He even lets on that his friend and he spent "some length" ... doing what? Perhaps plotting together how to get the necessary votes.
      As for the two bishops, good for them. They obviously saw through this manipulative behaviour and declined to participate.
      Resign? The nepotism, authoritarianism, favouritism, manipulation and anti-democratic intervention of Masson is absolutely disgusting. What on earth is wrong with him? Does he not see this is wrong?

      Delete
    3. In the distorted and deviant world of the Church in Wales and particularly Bazza's Llandaff this is merely business as usual with the omnipresent stinks of corruption and Lavender combined equally.
      Resign? The man is utterly dishonourable so I wouldn't hold your breath JC.
      But I doubt Masson was looking forward to his ten to nine phone call from His --Darkness this morning.

      Delete
    4. Lux Et Veritas2 March 2017 at 21:03

      @John C
      It's looks like Masson and the rest of the Llandaff chapter will be taking no further part in the proceedings. At least not openly!

      http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/news/2017/03/bishop-of-llandaff-appointment-process/

      Bishop of Llandaff – appointment process

      Under the provisions of the Constitution of the Church in Wales, the right to fill the vacancy has passed to the Bench of Bishops, and the Bishop of Swansea & Brecon, as the Senior Bishop and President of the Electoral College, has determined that there should be a process of consultation before names for possible appointment are considered. The consultation is intended to focus upon the ongoing and future needs of the Diocese of Llandaff and its communities and the needs of the wider church in the life of which a new Bishop will also have an important role. Those consulted will be invited to suggest names of individuals who might be considered suitable for appointment as Bishop of Llandaff, and names must be suggested in time for the next meeting of Bishops which begins on March 14th.

      In the Diocese of Llandaff those being consulted are:
      1. Members of the Electoral College
      2. Members of the Diocesan Standing Committee
      3. The Area Deans

      In the remaining five Dioceses, Bishops are consulting:
      1. The members of the Electoral College
      2. Members of the Diocesan Standing Committee

      Delete
    5. Well spotted LET.
      I think you might have missed the best bits.

      http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/resources/electoral-college/


      Electoral College

      The following documents are available for your reference in relation to the consultation ahead of the appointment of a Bishop of Llandaff:

      Diocesan Profile and Person Specification

      A Note on the Provincial Perspective

      Does ANYONE recognise the "Person Specification"?

      Delete
    6. Bravo LET & LG, I submit, stop it please, Im begging you, enough, I've almost wet myself, twice!

      Page 7
      • Improving communication. Despite its compact size and relatively strong network of deaneries, information does not always reach those who need to receive it – both headline news and fine detail. Developing the appropriate mixture of techniques and media to convey messages to clergy, to parishes and to congregations is an on-going challenge.

      All the new Bishop will need to do is sack the Diocesan Communications officer and resort to using Ancient Britons blog.
      Tens of thousands read it every month and information ALWAYS "reaches those who need to receive it".

      Just ask Canon Masson.

      Delete
    7. I added a postscript to this entry earlier with another link in which Gavin Ashenden poses the question, "The End of Church & State?". He quotes some disturbing statistics before stating:

      "Of all these, I think one of the most serious was the choice of the state to break the bond between children and marriage, and legislate for same-sex marriage. Of course it was a choice that any society has the freedom to take, but it was the final repudiation of the Christian culture that defined our civilisation. As Brown says, what took over one and a half thousand years to build and grow, we tore down in forty years."

      Among the cries of homophobia I am still waiting to hear a justification of Dr John's stance on same sex marriage and his interpretation of scripture to support it.

      Delete
    8. For ease of reference here is the link again
      https://ashenden.org/2017/03/02/the-end-of-church-state/

      Delete
    9. Deafening Silence2 March 2017 at 23:17

      Don't hold your breath AB.

      Delete
    10. @ Lux et Veritas Bangor no longer has a Diocesan Standing Committee. It has instead a Diocesan Council: a small group of carefully chosen (not elected), very busy people whose job it is to rubber stamp decisions that have already been made by the hierarchy.

      Delete
    11. Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness9 March 2017 at 10:42

      @AncientBriton

      It looks increasingly unlikely that your challenge will be met, not even by the sophist Scapegoat.

      Perhaps Jeffrey John didn't get Llandaff because of "deliberate perversion of the Bible" and alleged dishonesty?

      http://www.virtueonline.org/southwark-wannabe-bishop-no-friend-church-englands-orthodox-wing

      "Other irregularities about John's life have also bubbled to the surface. An article in the "Daily Telegraph" in June 2003 http://tinyurl.com/288rhl9 said he had been untruthful in a statement he had given about his domestic arrangements. The article ran with the headline "Gay bishop and curate boyfriend bought flat together last year." Dr John insisted that he and his boyfriend, whom he did not identify, had not been sexually active for a decade. He added, "My partner and I have never lived together (apart from one brief period while he was moving house) because our separate ministries have never made it possible to do so. However, we rely on each other for support and spend as much free time together as possible."
      However, the Diocese of Oxford confirmed that the men jointly own a £235,000 flat in Roehampton, Southwest London, near the church where Mr. Holmes works. They hold regular dinner parties there. Friends have told The Telegraph that before buying the flat last year, Mr. Holmes may have used Dr John's Southwark house as a correspondence address. The disclosures have further angered critics, who say the statements given by Dr John last week were misleading. The issue of truthfulness is as pertinent now as it was in 2003."

      Isn't it peculiar that Canon Masson skipped over these details?

      Delete
  41. Will from Wicklow2 March 2017 at 12:20

    I offer two comments to this discussion.

    First, here in Ireland, we have just bade our sad farewells to Bishop Sam Poyntz who has died aged 90. He was consecrated Bishop of Cork and then translated to Connor. He was a wise and energetic bishop. He was never elected to either See. On both occasions, the Electoral College failed to agree and the matter reverted to the House of Bishops. He was an excellent bishop in both dioceses, much loved, and hugely respected. Sometimes, this approach results in a better candidate (as I believe it did for you in Bangor with Tony Crockett in 2004).

    Second, I believe I am correct in saying that, in Wales, candidates are now seen by the electors from the vacant diocese before the Electoral College meets. So it is not quite true to say that nominations are only known when the College gathers. Usually a bishop facilitates a meeting for the electors and nominees (who obviously have to consent to their name going forward) are interviewed. In that case, one of your bishops must have spent some time in Jeffrey John's company and Canon Masson (who must have been there) is deliberately dissembling.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are wrong I'm afraid. Nominees for Bishop in the Church in Wales are not interviewed before the college meet. I also doubt any of the bishops met any of the names on the list of potential nominees as someone else has said nominations are made only at the college.

      Delete
    2. Sorry, Pili Pala, you're wrong. I was an elector in three electoral colleges (Swansea & Brecon 2007, Bangor 2008, to my shame; St Asaph 2009) and on each occasion candidates were interviewed by the diocesan electors, facilitated by the bishop of another diocese. Unless, of course, Golfing Barry abolished this part of the process because it was undermining his control of the process.

      Delete
  42. Tony the Tailor2 March 2017 at 12:36

    Now that we know the full extent of the courting of Jeffrey John (thank you, FRCO) it brings all Morgan's shameful (and typical) deceit fully under the spotlight. St David's cannot have elected Joanne Penberthy on the basis she was the best candidate (and not because she is a woman), because we now know there was a much better-qualified candidate available, who is native Welsh-speaking, academically superior, with wider pastoral experience and a proven track-record of enabling growth. His name is Jeffrey John.

    By the way, @Danny Jones, we are not Lutherans or Presbyterians in the Church in Wales (at least not officially) so it is misleading to claim the Bible 'as our guide.' Anglicans appeal equally to scripture, tradition and reason. If we remembered that, we might not have to suffer the drivel too frequently dished-up from the pulpit of a certain cathedral in CF5!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Subversive Canon2 March 2017 at 14:06

      The smart money on The Green in CF5 is that Jeffrey John was not considered or put forward for St. David's because byzantine Barry had already canvassed him, sized him up and promised to deliver Llandaff to him on a silver salver.
      Masson is merely a tool.
      In more than one way.

      Delete
    2. "Courting Dr John". Being asked and giving your opinion is not courting. Being asked to approach the prospective candidate to ask if he is prepared to let his name be put forward is courtesy not courting

      Delete
    3. All of which could be done over the telephone, by email, text or indeed a blog.
      No need for wining and dining.
      Why weren't all the candidates approached in the comfort (and privacy) of the Swamp Cafe?

      Delete
    4. Dr John was neither wined nor dined

      Delete
    5. FRCO seems to suggest otherwise.
      Drain the swamp.

      Delete
  43. So many of the recent comments on this topic confirm two things quite clearly: a) if you are honest and open about your sexuality, then the Church in Wales is not a safe place for you.
    b) there is an underbelly of malevolence and viciousness, not in the leadership, but at the very heart of the organisation, that beggars belief. Little wonder, then, that so many ordinary people of the coming generation, give it a wide berth.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wish I'd said that

      Delete
    2. If you have been chosen for a role of responsibility in the Church,then this comes with a duty to uphold Christian moral standards.
      If the 'heart' of the Church is confused and recognise a loss of direction in tradition and teaching,then it is absolutely appropriate to raise such matters.
      This is a charitable love for the Church of God.

      Delete
  44. Silent Majority2 March 2017 at 17:29

    No, @batsfordm27 and @Stan Shaw, it is not about that. I refute your smear that we at Llandaff are a bunch of desperate homophobes.

    What we Landavians reject is the constant meddling in our affairs by a former Archbishop who should leave well enough alone, despite his constant attempts to have his own way. Unlike former Llandaff bishops, he has not sensibly moved out of the diocese but parked himself in an overblown mansion just up the road from his old Cathedral. Apparently he now intends to officiate at a weekday service at Llandaff too! He is obsessed with string-pulling in our diocese despite his retirement.

    We just want him to get out, stay out, and take his minions with him.

    All of Barry's appointments have at least one thing in common: they are either his personal friends or they are intended to make some political statement. Deans John Lewis and Gerwyn Capon are the former, Dean Janet Henderson and Bishop Joanna Penberthy the latter. Jeffrey John appears to be the latter too.

    I could care less about Dean John's orientation, though his much-paraded "honesty" seems all about personal gratification. There are many issues in the world of far greater importance than the sexual preferences of 2% of the population. A self-declared minority is just that; unfortunately it insists on drawing attention to its minority status.

    Most of us are not homophobes, we simply do not see this as the reason why we come to church. When those in the church start promoting their sexuality above all else in Christianity, we have no choice but to go elsewhere.

    We care far more about the incestuous nature of Barry Morgan's church, the poor choices of appointments he made throughout his 18 years years as Bishop and Archbishop, and the humbuggery of Barry's sycophants that is still causing us problems.

    The numbers speak for themselves: the C in W has crashed to its lowest ever percentage of church goers and continues to fall. It appears that despite the parade of mealy-mouthed political correctness, people are voting with their feet.

    This is Morgan's legacy. Despite all his machinations the institution is failing faster and faster. All Morgan has ever cared about is grandstanding and his pronouncements are so much hot air. We at Llandaff have to live with the fallout from his favouritism and incompetence.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well said Silent Majority, I could not agree more except some have chosen to stay rather than go, to fight and not to heed the wounds.

      The latest affectation recently adopted by the fantabulous dud in the Deanery is to have the slimy Mr Toad set out Her Majesty's special chair for Gerwhine to lounge in during 11am Eucharists.

      You know, the chair with the big fluffy red cushion that is supposed to be solely for the use of visiting Royalty.

      Nothing but a pretentious preening self-important poseur.

      Delete
    2. "We landavians" what utter, utter tosh. The mere phrase makes me squirm - those who refer to themselves as "landaviahs" are in my experience pompous, old school and inherently homophobic. Get a life and get real. There is nothing special about Llandaff and there is no such thing as a llandavian. Utter utter tush. And I live in Llandaff !!

      Delete
    3. Sorry state of affairs2 March 2017 at 23:13

      Squirm away "landaviahs".
      In our old school we learned spelling.
      Including "tuppence".
      A true indication of much that's wrong in Llandaff today.

      Delete
    4. Sounds like you were also taught to consider yourself the more superior. "Landavians" (if it had the "LL" I might be more forgiving!) - captures everything that's wrong about the goings on in and around the Cathedral. Old school Landavians thinking they can flex their influence because money and schooling once allowed them to ride roughshod over others. Those days are over, thank God. And it's Two Penny not tuppence - what arrogance to think you have the power to name others - says it all.

      Delete
    5. Gosh, someone fell out of bed the wrong side this morning @Tuppence!

      May I serve you some chips with your shoulder?

      The most pompous people at Llandaff are the Taffia who arrived with Barry. The sort who like buying antiques and strutting around as if they own the place. The sort who would put two LLs into the word 'Landavian', which is derived from the Latin 'Landavensis' and never had the Welsh Ll in the first place.

      If the quango-loving Taffia are so wonderful, why is the Church in such a spiral of decline as it tries to dilute its teachings and accommodate the liberal elite? By God this swamp needs draining!

      Delete
    6. Knowledge is power Bjorn Again but ignorance is bliss.
      Tuppence seems to be content revelling in the idyllic existence so typical of the dumbed-down snowflake generation that despise anything and anyone they consider to be pompous, "old school" or dare to hold a different opinion.

      Delete
    7. We could all name same sex partnered bishops who are not out and not sexually abstinent. It is no longer don't ask don't tell but don't ask and cover your eyes just in case

      Delete
  45. @Silent Majority : I wish there were those 'flashing hearts' one has access to on Twitter ,then I could acknowledge your excellent piece ad infinitum !

    ReplyDelete
  46. @Silent Majority I think your comments are heart-rending and whilst I don't agree, I am really sorry that you feel so fed up.
    Then, I read the comments posted by Ruth immediately after, and hearken back to my original observations about the nastiness that is almost palpable. It's this, as much as anything, that impedes mission.
    But I'm not getting into point-scoring here. I hope that everyone who uses this forum might adopt a maxim of 'is it true? is it kind? is it necessary?' when contributing to the debate and before making their contributions.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How does your suggestion of 'is it true? is it kind? is it necessary?' apply to the Llandaff clergy?
      Gerwhine's nasty letters to little old ladies?
      Were they necessary, kind or true?
      Masson's behind the scenes lobbying for and on behalf of his old chum?
      How is that kind to the other candidates?
      Or necessary when the electoral college and bench of Bishops exist?
      Or true (honest, open, even handed) ?

      Delete
    2. Deafening Silence5 March 2017 at 19:28

      Well?

      Delete
  47. We have to elevate this debate to the highest possible ground. Our chattering tongues are part of the chastity deal.
    God did act decisively in the Electoral College - and it is still the holy season of Lent, a time when we should be mindful of our weaknesses, our insensitivities as well as our excessive talking. Let us beware of pseudo passion narratives that run 'Oh my suffering has been long and excruciatingly protracted' portraying victimhood to the highest degree which leads to subtle perfectionism and integrity heaped on the victim and then all the justice seekers proclaim, He who is not with us, is against us whilst taking him/her off to an episcopal rule of fake royalty.
    The truth does not lie in our bodies or sexuality, fluid as it is going to be with transgenderism , for that would be to idolise a creature.(All the imagined bodies of the world shall I give thee, says the tempter, if you fall.....the ubiquity of porneia) The Body of Christ come first. We are to keep our eyes fixed on the Creator. Then the answer comes. The rest are voices from the floor.
    We are forgetting the people, scarcely mentioned here, of that diocese who seem on Question Time, to be lost, harassed, weakened, strangely identity less because they have been screwed over by the liberal elite. They do not give us a wide berth because of our nastiness- we don't know them, we are in our Anglican filter bubble self obsessing about who is the next one with a pointed top hat and a stick. The Magnificat is not confined to the Evensong Cathedral congregation, it applies to every person who lives in the diocese of Llandaff. If we cannot think of them, then we are screwing them over. Now who taught us that?, I ask in my shame.

    ReplyDelete
  48. In plain English please.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Drain the swamp3 March 2017 at 10:13

      Why should we give the job to Jeffey John? He hasn't given us any details of what he would do with it. Is he part of the swamp? Or will he drain it?

      Delete
    2. Drain the swamp3 March 2017 at 11:27

      Apology for the typo. Jeffrey

      Delete
    3. Any possible candidate favoured by Barry Morgan and put forward as his chosen heir and successor will certainly be in the swamp, perhaps not as deep as Barry yet, but that will only be a matter of time, keeping the skeletons locked in the cupboards and dipping hands into collection plates for 'discretionary' pocket money.

      The Swamp cafeteria is in the County Club and if there was nothing underhand about Jeffrey John's candidacy, FRCO would have been able to report that each and every possible candidate had been wined & dined by Darth --Insidious.

      Remember, the swamp bed isn't level.

      Delete
  49. Watching all this as one who has followed politics for many years.

    It's politics. Classic crisis strategy.
    Lord Barry-elect hasn't got his man into the job he promised him. He needs to save face with his new chums in the House of Lords. So he spins. Best spin he can come up with? How about this: the homophobic bloggers and bishops done him in. Feed the line to a friendly canon and a friendly MP. Get them to say it as if it's true. Give them a backup line, equally false. How about this: the electorate wants your man but those pesky bishops and bloggers are sabotaging the electorate. hopefully the media picks it up if so watch for Barry moving in for the kill. He saves face, has a line which makes him look like the good guy and Dean Jeffrey John is history. Something about "we are moving on".

    Might have worked too. Anyone remember the Barry-spun line that Janet Henderson resigned because of people not liking women priests? Same strategy different crisis.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Indeed, @Hack, that's a very perceptive analysis.

      In the world of spin where Barry operates, we must watch for the string pulling. The spin around Dean Janet's resignation prevented any real questions about her departure, i.e. regarding a certain public argument about the Cathedral's failing finances.

      In some ways the C in W has already pre-empted this by publishing their consultation guidelines. Wise move! A cornered control-freak is a dangerous opponent at the best of times.

      Of course the best way to counter spin is to follow George Orwell's sound advice, "In times of universal deceit, to tell the truth is a revolutionary act."

      Delete
  50. Somewhat Perturbed3 March 2017 at 21:16

    The Parish of Newton, Nottage & Porthcawl's Facebook page now has a post with a picture of Jeffrey John and the words:
    "Write to the Bishop.
    Bishop John invites short emails on who you think should be our next Bishop and any other comments about the process. They need to be in by next Friday.
    bishop.swanbrec@churchinwales.org.uk"

    The ecclesiastical equivalent of putting an election poster in one's window? ;-)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well if Masson can't help rig the election by one means he's obviously prepared to help rig it by another.
      The crooked Precentor is just the puppet at the other end of the strings held by the retired cornered control freak now operating out of Llys Ego in Whitchurch.
      All the previously considered but failed candidates should be excluded from further consideration but if Masson can conjure the desired correct result, would the quid pro quo be Swansea & Brecon for him when John Davies retires ably supported by his oldest child's godfather?
      Drain the swamp indeed!

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